tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post158949528460309816..comments2024-03-06T02:46:19.929+00:00Comments on Translation Tribulations: Tough times in the sty...Kevin Lossnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14727800526216764023noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-71911286734628820912014-03-16T19:00:01.581+00:002014-03-16T19:00:01.581+00:00"... you agree that you shall not ... partici..."... you agree that you shall not ... participate in any online ... media in which the content is ... a parody of us and/or our officers and/or our employees ..."<br /><br />So what you're saying is that <i>thepigturd</i> will hit the fan if any of their "independent" contractors posts the time of day on this blog? :-)Kevin Lossnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14727800526216764023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-54214453562315577152014-03-16T16:42:36.897+00:002014-03-16T16:42:36.897+00:00New clauses from TBW's Online Contract that fr...New clauses from TBW's Online Contract that freelancers are required to sign (you have to laugh!): <br /><br />“7.14. For the duration of this Agreement and for a period of three years thereafter, you agree that you shall not publish or participate in any online or print media in which the content is abusive and/or defamatory and/or a parody of us and/or our officers and/or our employees and /or their families and/or in which you impersonate us and/or our officers and/or our employees and/or their families. <br />7.15: You acknowledge that a breach of the provisions in clause 7.14 would cause us irreparable injury for which we would not have an adequate remedy at law. In the event of a breach, you agree that we shall be entitled to injunctive relief in addition to any other remedies we may have at law or in equity.» <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00598078267212766082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-83024977557005694822013-11-15T14:24:01.004+00:002013-11-15T14:24:01.004+00:00Here is an update on how badly thepigturd is suffe...Here is an update on how badly thepigturd is suffering economically and why translators must cut their rates to help the company improve its margins: <a href="http://goo.gl/4R3QVJ" rel="nofollow">http://goo.gl/4R3QVJ</a>Kevin Lossnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14727800526216764023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-83716015255046459522013-09-08T20:54:31.420+01:002013-09-08T20:54:31.420+01:00Thanks for the chuckle!Thanks for the chuckle!Altahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10371082832697713472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-62835407463389227842013-09-08T00:15:58.877+01:002013-09-08T00:15:58.877+01:00@Alta: Lightning loves to strike the same spot in ...@Alta: Lightning loves to strike the same spot in the world of commercial translation, time and again. That's why it's not a bright idea to keep standing near or in the same piles of pig shit.Kevin Lossnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14727800526216764023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-77420357245812166192013-09-08T00:12:10.161+01:002013-09-08T00:12:10.161+01:00This is not a one time gig. A bit of googling show...This is not a one time gig. A bit of googling shows that this is an exercise the Pig Turg love to repeat every once in a while: <br />2002 http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Czechlist/conversations/topics/11936 <br /> http://www.translatortips.net/tranfreearchive/tf50-translation-rates.html<br />I think I've spotted one from 2008 as well but cannot find it now.<br />Additionally, a few interesting replies on "Agency check" https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/honyaku/4I0UgY5N8aY from 2010.<br />A look at Glassdoor reviews is also very telling.<br /><br /><br /><br />Altahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10371082832697713472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-17256390904314235882013-09-04T20:30:29.296+01:002013-09-04T20:30:29.296+01:00"Still: we depend on translators". Exact..."Still: we depend on translators". Exactly. Agencies are nothing but empty shells who depend totally on freelance translators' willingness to cooperate with them. Make a Post-It note of it in your mind at all times, do not forget about it. A little less arrogance would help... Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16422976344043617167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-70677081874563808602013-09-04T20:23:33.429+01:002013-09-04T20:23:33.429+01:00"I've encountered my share of lousy trans..."I've encountered my share of lousy translators too." So what are LSPs waiting to lobby like hell and make sure the translation profession is at last protected?... We too are sick and tired of competing with bunches of idiots who, among other things, accept just any rate and working conditions... But LSPs thrive on the present situation, probably, so why don't YOU stop whining?...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16422976344043617167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-90746974434931391602013-08-07T15:38:43.968+01:002013-08-07T15:38:43.968+01:00@ Kevin H: "It's also been my experience ...@ Kevin H: "It's also been my experience that the quality of my work seems to benefit from dictation, as though there is a new aural filter in series with the rest of my neural network and it's particularly sensitive to source-language interference and bulky, inelegant renditions."<br /><br />You have a point there: I frequently give my translations a final read-through out loud, and it certainly helps me spot some of the less-clear and/or clunkier renditions (I'm a patent translator, so frequently I can't do much about the "bulky and inelegant" side of things :-) ).<br /><br />Perhaps I'll try voice recognition at some stage. At the moment, my translation memory tends to do so much of the typing for me that I've thought that trying to fit VR in around it might be counter-productive.Alison Penfoldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-51815289697413651522013-07-30T12:23:44.983+01:002013-07-30T12:23:44.983+01:00I think Kevin Hendzel makes a very important point...I think Kevin Hendzel makes a very important point here. If the reason for attempts to reduce purchasing costs is really a downward pressure, not on costs, rather on prices (not an attempt to increase contribution margin from both sides), then the tough times are, as the Germans say, hausgemacht, homemade, i.e. of their own making. Pig/big companies are trade companies, no matter how hard they try to present themselves otherwise (the statement by Anonymous that “the "translating" part is but a part of the whole process and sometimes even a smaller one“ is typical propaganda). If they fail in their sales business or manage to sell on price only (is it not pretty much the same?), they compromise their most essential competence. To compensate for the falling margins on the purchasing side is another ingredient in their recipe for disaster. They started the recipe with usurping CAT tools to increase margin AND to drive sales prices down. In fact, they didn’t only “pandered to the bottom-feed clients”, they effectively bred their clients themselves, feeding them with their “technology” bullshit stories. Reaping what they sowed now. Tough times in the sty indeed.Tomarenko Fachübersetzungenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551407873260929196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-7969152301710030702013-07-28T03:45:36.656+01:002013-07-28T03:45:36.656+01:00My results are usually much, much better than that...My results are usually much, much better than that cursed video. Not necessarily faster, but certainly with less editing. Usually fiddling the microphone position sorts that problem out, but I thought it might be instructive to those unfamiliar with that voice recognition software to see some of the ways one might edit with it. But as you point out, these tools are used in very different ways. I think it would be fascinating to make a collection of about 3 minutes of screencast voice recognition work, so people see the range of working styles. I would even include a recording dump off a dictaphone. I was totally turned off by the way I saw some use these tools for a long time until I observed a method which I felt fit my style.<br /><br />I think if I just read a finished translation I might have been a bit faster. And I'll admit to having cheated and looked up the term "Red Junglefowl" before I started, because for all I know about chickens, I know very little of their history. Except for <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Araucana" rel="nofollow">Araucanas</a>. They have always fascinated me, and I like their green eggs, though the birds themselves are real troublemakers.Kevin Lossnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14727800526216764023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-55229068834087043002013-07-27T18:37:04.853+01:002013-07-27T18:37:04.853+01:00Kevin, thanks, that was very instructive. I agree ...Kevin, thanks, that was very instructive. I agree your Dragon appeared extremely slow and cranky. Just for fun I've tried to outrun mine at extremely high speed with perfect diction and so far I can't do it. Last night after viewing your video I tried reading as fast as I could from a finished English text to see if I could outstrip it and it still popped out a flawless 121-word paragraph. Of course my computer is designed specifically for dictation and I'm not running a TM tool in parallel with it.<br /><br />I do think we come at speech recognition from different directions, though. I do very little on-the-fly correction because my dictation has a genuine warp signature. I'm usually working just to clear the buffer (back to real technology now) as fast as I can while I'm "in the moment" with the three or four thoughts I'm juggling and sorting into the proper order to set on the table. Imagine simultaneous interpreting a fast-talker and that will give you an idea what dictation is like for me.<br /><br />It occurs to me that it might be fun to produce a video like you did just to provide some visual context to the ATA Business Practices List discussion, so thanks for that idea. I'll post the link here too if I can clear out some time to produce it.Kevin Hendzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13134174901029466746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-9282623487494040552013-07-27T14:10:57.060+01:002013-07-27T14:10:57.060+01:00Thanks for the laugh, Kevin, I laughed almost as h...Thanks for the laugh, Kevin, I laughed almost as hard as when I read the original letter.<br />It must be busy at the Corporate Sob Story Agency!<br />In-house employees of large LSPs beware - outsourcing/relocation to countries with cheaper labour is the next natural step in profit enhancement. (See the captioning/subtitling industry)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-28980754405869444502013-07-27T02:52:21.955+01:002013-07-27T02:52:21.955+01:00Some of us have speech that is a bit tangled; I fi...Some of us have speech that is a bit tangled; I find that the keyboard interface helps me keep the register more formal, and enables me to produce literate-sounding translations more easily than I could using dictation. <br /><br />I can see dictation being really useful for people who also work as interpreters.<br /><br />Of course, it's been about 15 years since the last time I tried dictation.<br /><br />I also wonder how it would work in a bullpen-style office...<br /><br />Placebo Domingo 2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-60150876702892819782013-07-26T22:07:20.496+01:002013-07-26T22:07:20.496+01:00Just for fun, because I've been making little ...Just for fun, because I've been making little videos for my instruction projects, I made a spontaneous demo of translating with voice recognition software in my CAT tool and posted it to YouTube. I picked the text on chickens more or less randomly from Wikipedia, because I miss the chickens I left behind in Germany a few months ago. Working in memoQ definitely slowed me down, although I may have saved a microsecond with a fuzzy match. (Probably not - I speak faster than I edit fuzzy matches). And for some reason, the Dragon was in a bad mood tonight - probably didn't like the adjustment of my microphone - so I had to edit more than usual. If you can hold out to the end of the clip, I think I've shown very clearly why you may not want others to use voice recognition software as a translation aid. Here's the link: <a href="http://youtu.be/wctXO4-u8Y8" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/wctXO4-u8Y8</a>.Kevin Lossnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14727800526216764023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-37875258348474520882013-07-26T17:54:01.607+01:002013-07-26T17:54:01.607+01:00Yes, agreed. I've referred to your "thin...Yes, agreed. I've referred to your "thinking time" process as "being in the moment" with the text without typing distraction.<br /><br />It's also been my experience that the quality of my work seems to benefit from dictation, as though there is a new aural filter in series with the rest of my neural network and it's particularly sensitive to source-language interference and bulky, inelegant renditions.<br /><br />Dictation is still shockingly fast for me with the right material and there can be a huge, game-changing economic benefit from that technology if translators would at least consider it.<br /><br />Kevin Hendzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13134174901029466746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-76941966982947291072013-07-26T09:55:38.910+01:002013-07-26T09:55:38.910+01:00Kevin, the real bottleneck, as you probably realiz...Kevin, the real bottleneck, as you probably realize, is not typing or dictation <i>speed</i>, but rather thinking time. The use of good voice recognition tools allows me to engage more with the text, consider the translation and transmit it faster. If it were just matter of raw, unconsidered speed, then even at my slow typing rate of 40 wpm I would beat my rather decent effective dictation rate for translation. I find that dictation has also significantly improved the style of my first drafts.Kevin Lossnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14727800526216764023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-30092472571617884072013-07-26T07:51:35.463+01:002013-07-26T07:51:35.463+01:00^ Interesting. I've been making the exact sam...^ Interesting. I've been making the exact same case on the ATA Business Practices List. Increase productivity three-fold via dictation. The discussion started when I said that I couldn't believe -- given the current state of voice-recognition technology in English -- that translators working into English still typed their translations. OK, I admit that I compared it to the laborious process of hammering text letter-by-letter into granite, but still...I type an average of 70 wpm with peaks around 100 wpm but I talk/dictate three to four times faster. If your brain's clock rate is 4x faster than your fingers' peak speed, it's best to consider other ways of accommodating that speed. <br /><br />The response has been fascinating. There are plenty of open-minded people who are willing to consider it, but what's really surprised me is the number of people who appear to be suddenly in love with their keyboards after having spent decades bitching about them, often to me -- mostly the stresses and strains to their shoulders and fingers and their weary eyesight. They also claim the sudden ability to type as fast as I can dictate (they can't). They can't even type as fast as THEY can dictate, but they just haven't discovered that yet.<br /><br />Anyway, I'm not advocating by any means that translators who leverage new technology to improve productivity then turn around and accept rude rate cram-downs like we've been discussing here. Translators should be able reap the rewards they've earned through their own innovation, self-training and adaptation.<br /><br />Kevin Hendzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13134174901029466746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-88201314044795895532013-07-23T19:06:38.488+01:002013-07-23T19:06:38.488+01:00Careful, careful Jacques. If you have been a worke...Careful, careful Jacques. If you have been a workerbee for thebigturd in recent years, you may be in violation of Section 6.14 of the supplier agreement with your statement here!Kevin Lossnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14727800526216764023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-73862424135199570992013-07-23T18:51:32.181+01:002013-07-23T18:51:32.181+01:00Kevin, this is a most interesting, entertaining an...Kevin, this is a most interesting, entertaining and enlightening debate. But why is nowhere mention made of the main culoprick ($350 MM in "sales", if we are to believe their spin artists), i.e. TrashPorkfat (or TrashPorkfart, depending on how much hot air and greenhouse gases you think they produce in their attempts to asphyxiate everyone around them)? And what about their many other clownes? How about preparing a spitlist, a rogue gallery where they would all appear under their most fitting aliases? Anyone in favor of a competition?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00322649024349511052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-7878117491522629392013-07-22T12:16:19.771+01:002013-07-22T12:16:19.771+01:00Fantastic reply Kevin and perfect interpretation o...Fantastic reply Kevin and perfect interpretation of the corporate emails some may have received.Čedomir Pušicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07025648862609587465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-2609372667926475922013-07-22T10:34:33.163+01:002013-07-22T10:34:33.163+01:00Translators increase your productivity 3 fold by.....Translators increase your productivity 3 fold by...<br /><br />Investing in memoQ,Dragon NaturallySpeaking Premium and a decent noise cancelling mic. <br /><br />OR<br /><br />A decent MT solution (eg memoQ and AsiaOnline). <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-34122141598556048892013-07-21T16:44:38.960+01:002013-07-21T16:44:38.960+01:00great discussion... it will take me ages to read t...great discussion... it will take me ages to read the whole thing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-8982462171055508902013-07-20T23:34:09.180+01:002013-07-20T23:34:09.180+01:00LSPs' hysterical obsession over technology is ...LSPs' hysterical obsession over technology is driven by their endlessly obsequious pandering to bottom-feeder clients demanding ever-increasing "savings" from technology. The fact that natural language manipulation is intrinsically resistant to a pure technological solution is hugely frustrating for them because it means that they are obligated to continue to rely on those pesky human translators they can't control -- but as we've seen here, they gleefully bully -- to create much of the marketable product they sell.<br /><br />This has not stopped TAUS though, which has just sidestepped this frustration by creating imaginary friends who whisper to them in reassuring tones that translation is not only just a "commodity," but now a "utility." Unfortunately for the TAUS folks, this notion has been totally invalidated by their own TAUS colleagues who pay for the whole charade -- you know, the CLIENTS -- who are simultaneously demanding to know precisely who their translators are. <br /><br />The resultant cognitive dissonance has been deafening to all sentient primates.<br /><br />Anyway, the bottom-feeder LSPs long ago capitulated by gleefully jumping onto this slippery slope and now seem genuinely surprised by how rapidly they are falling into the black hole. These blind, unilateral forced rate cuts are not just ill-advised, they are transparent acts of frightening desperation.<br /><br />(Oh, and leaving project managers to mop up after this disastrous public display of explosive incontinence is incredibly boorish behavior.)Kevin Hendzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13134174901029466746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20155610.post-32914308760905873612013-07-20T16:27:31.749+01:002013-07-20T16:27:31.749+01:00@LK: Who wants to be a translator? Is that the que...@LK: Who wants to be a translator? Is that the question? Or is it who wants to deal with such dubious providers of "opportunity"?<br /><br />In thirteen years I haven't dealt with a company outside of Asia or eastern Europe which suggested I should accept compensation anywhere near that level. Most translators I know in my market consider those who pay double The Pig Turd rate to be in the lower-priced segment of the market. (This should give you an idea of where The Turd's stratum is. <i>Caveat emptor</i>: you get what you pay for... or worst of all, you get what <i>they</i> pay for.) Typical translators who work full days earning double and triple the The Pig's rates are not making a killing, but rather a quite average living in most First World countries, but they are probably enjoying a profession that can be very stimulating and intellectually rewarding. Translation remains a worthwhile activity despite all the leeches who try to suck the blood and profit out of it.Kevin Lossnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14727800526216764023noreply@blogger.com