Censorship on ProZ continues in its usual pointless manner, carried out by individuals of sometimes dubious perception and judgment who seem to roll dice to come up with a silly rule to quote in justification. A recent KudoZ question (English to German) on "intimate knowledge" is a good example. (See the screenshot at the bottom of this post - click on it for an enlarged view.) A number of linguistically relevant comments were deleted by moderators, while an insulting comment from one translator directed toward another remained. (It characterized the answerer's proposal as "Komplett daneben. - Eigentlich eine Stilblüte, oder einfach ein Witz" - rather funny, actually, because it was the best solution; in this way, people reveal their lack of understanding of the source language among other things.) Comments on these deletions were also deleted, because it is also forbidden to comment on the regime. There are days when I wonder if moderation on ProZ hasn't been subcontracted to the government of Iran. Certainly Ahmadinejad & Co. would approve of many of the narrow-minded actions taken.Amazingly, I've managed to stay out of trouble there for a while, perhaps because My Favorite Moderator has been preoccupied with apparently futile attempts to break the 12-cent price barrier. But all good things must come to an end, and this morning I received the following rebuke:
Dear Kevin Lossner,
This message is to inform you that your post http://www.proz.com/post/1290767 has been removed from public view but made editable and visible to you because it was not in line with site rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/1#1
Please note that ProZ.com is a "translation workplace". Topics which are not directly related to translation or the translation industry, or to ProZ.com and the ProZ.com community, are not permitted.
As a moderator, I have pledged to enforce ProZ.com's limited scope by removing, or not vetting, postings that are not appropriate for the translation workplace, without regard to my personal opinion on views expressed.
For more info, see:
ProZ.com scope: http://www.proz.com/scope Forum rules: http://www.proz.com/forumrules FAQ's on no politics: http://www.proz.com/?sp=faq&#forum_no_politics
You are kindly requested to edit your post in line with this rule, so it can be made visible again.
Please note that political allusions are not permitted in the forums. Please remove the reference to "Arbeit macht frei", as it has been found offensive by Jewish site users.
Thank you in advance for your understanding and future cooperation.
Regards,
Astrid Elke Johnson
ProZ.com moderator.
The context of this is my somewhat provocative response to a thread complaining about crowdsourcing and urging translators to sign an online petition against it. The original poster is a charming young law student who translates on the side; she often has good ideas and interesting things to say, but our opinions differ in this case on the effectiveness of the action proposed. Silly calls for solidarity to achieve Justice in Rates or some other thing are common enough on ProZ or elsewhere from those with no understanding of a market economy and their role in it as independent, responsible business people. The funniest of these seem to come from French translators, though I'm at a loss to explain why. Maybe they are getting tired of burning down fast food restaurants and blocking traffic there and need some new entertainment.
The content of my wicked post was as follows:
David Russi wrote:I found that site ages ago and was thinking about it when I wrote the last post. I could not remember the URL. Like heck they'll make more off the job IF it sells....
Terrible practice [referring to working 'on spec'], must really be hurting the design industry... which BTW is also grappling with crowdsourcing.
http://www.no-spec.com/
I still think the whole "ethics" argument here is pointless. In one way or another, people will be taken to the cleaners by their governments, their churches, their spouses and children, their business partners... why should it be any different with companies? In fact, it might be argued that exploitation is one of the most ethical acts one could practice with respect to fellow humans, because it may bring them closer to real enlightenment on how society works and how they can engage productively with it. Arbeit macht frei and all that you know. Especially when it's unpaid.
This ethical problem will not be solved by signing online petitions and probably not even by a lot of Neo-Communist babble or whack job proposals to have the UN ensure that we all get paid a "fair" rate. If it ain't enough to get me that Maybach I want next year, it's just not fair, I tell you! I don't care if you are satisfied with a rusty bicycle as long as it has snow tires.
I'm not about to start dictating to you when, where and how much you should be compensated for your work. If you aren't sitting in a prison camp somewhere being forced to prostitute your linguistic skills without remuneration for some Axis of Evil candidate, then I presume you are an adult with some degree of free choice in your actions. Whether you or anyone else chooses wisely is seldom my concern. If you think that translating 2000 words free as a translation test is a good idea, that's your problem. I would think you are nuts, because I refuse to do any of that. Except when I did indeed translate that much or more and bagged a great direct client. It was a lucky call based on mature judgment, but it could have just as well been a bad call. As adults and business people, we have to learn to live with risk and respond appropriately to whatever challenges may face us, not whimper helplessly for a collective action that would be harder to work out than herding cats. (I find the latter generally works well with a bowl of milk or some tasty chicken. Maybe there is a lesson here.)
My comment is, of course, no longer visible in that thread and will remain hidden. As usual, I have no interest in accommodating a silly regime of censorship by overzealous members of the kirk or any others. I suspect the offended Jewish users, if indeed there really are any, have a rather poor understanding of English and are not able to understand irony in that language. For that matter, I don't care if they are Oxford English majors; that phrase belongs to history and the world, and its use in a discussion of oppressive practices is just as appropriate as many others we encounter in daily conversation. But I do enjoy the particular punch that Arbeit macht frei has in certain circumstances. In one case, its subtle incorporation in a conversation with a bureaucrat at the foreigner's registration office (Ausländerbehörde) was the only way to make clear the injustice of certain visa policies in Germany where family ties and responsibilities count for nothing and a work contract is the only means available to live near one's child, despite the documented ability to generate a reasonable income by other means. Mein Kampf of three years to regain the right to live and work independently in an environment where foreigners, particularly foreigners from outside the EU, suffer many disadvantages, is a chapter of my life I will not forget, and sometimes a provocative phrase is necessary to shake a discussion partner out of complacency and clichéd responses and consider objectively the matter at hand. This is a time-honored rhetorical technique which also belongs in the toolbox of today's translators.
Intimate tips for intimate knowledge on ProZ. Many rightly question the
prostitution of professionalism in search of the Google AdSense dollar.
prostitution of professionalism in search of the Google AdSense dollar.







Hi Kevin!
ReplyDeleteFirst of all thanks for the "charming young law student" part, I'm flattered. I'm also glad you think some of the things I have to say are interesting, as you know, I follow your blog because I think what you have to say is interesting too. But just for the record, I don't translate "on the side" and felt it was important to clarify that because your incorrect impression that I am not a full-time translator keeps coming up, both here and on the thread.
Best,
Paula
Welcome back, Paula :-) I presume you're a full-time student, and you have stated your intent to practice law later. So in a very real sense, you are translating "on the side", even if that side takes up a huge amount of time. You wouldn't be the first student to work full time and study full time. (We can't all be pampered students at liberal arts colleges in California.) In any case, my sincere apologies if I gave any impression that you were to be ranked with a househubby translating for two cents a word to make a bit of milk money. Not at all my intent. But studies must come first or next thing you know, twenty years have gone by and the degree remains unfinished. And that's when its absence really starts to get you.
ReplyDeleteHi again Kevin!
ReplyDeleteThanks! It's great to be back. As much as love traveling, it rained most of the time I was there. :(
You’re right, I do intend to practice law when I graduate and I will probably focus my career more on an area of the law that allows me to use my language skills and not so much on an area of translation that allows me to use my legal skills. Fortunately, I’ve partnered up with the right people and organized my little business in a way that lets me prioritize school, particularly during midterms and finals. Now that I read your reply, I understand what you meant by translating “on the side” and in that sense, I guess you’re right. I had never really looked at that way before.
As far as getting the degree, I couldn’t agree with you more! The last thing I want to do is take it slow, law school is long enough where I live as it is (4.5 years) compared to where I’m from (2-3 depending on the school). I don’t intend to graduate any later than 2011 as scheduled!
-Paula
P.S. About the thought police, maybe we could make a petition to make them get a life! ;)
This is beautiful;
ReplyDelete"As a moderator, I have pledged to enforce ProZ.com's limited scope by removing, or not vetting, postings that are not appropriate for the translation workplace, without regard to my personal opinion on views expressed."
Having pledged this thing, I am now incorruptible and immune to petty squabbling. I am also somewhat ennobled by the sacrifice of my everyday partiality. And should anybody, anywhere take offence at anything*, I am the rock on which they can reliably rely.
* Conditions apply. Applicants must belong to a recognizably aggrieved group.
@Paula: 4-5 years?! Is a law decree there a graduate degree or a first degree at the university? In the US the JD is typically a 3 year degree, but those studying law have already completed a bachelor's degree (4 years theoretically) in something else (English, Political Science, Physics, Biochemistry, whatever) first. Germans do it quite differently, but I won't comment on the German university system since I have a daughter who will be entering it soon, and I do enough to get her mad at me. I believe in general education at the university level, which most here consider "controversial" at the least.
ReplyDelete@Rod: You read my thoughts. Watch out or you'll end up in the splintery stool again yourself ;-) There are days when I think it might be fun to be a ProZ moderator and keep myself in good condition by engaging in amazing contortions to make any little thing a RuleZ violation, but if I want to do that I can just as well get paid for such silliness by getting a job at my local tax office near Sachsenhausen, which carries on in the old spirit.
Kevin, I'm done with posting on Proz after I was not permitted a sarcastic response to a well known harpy who apparently has a license to be rude in nearly every post.
ReplyDeleteI saw that the AMF sign was stolen recently. Coincidence?
I look forward to reading your blog in 2010. Have a good new year.
Rod
Rod, I can certainly understand giving up on that environment. Today I got another bizarre note from the Scottish spinster carrying out God's work in her role as a ProZ moderator... for the same post! I suppose maybe it warranted another notice because I can no longer edit it to comply with these silly RuleZ. Further down the page I noted the contribution of moderator Russel Jones, another one who has banned a post of mine for non-compliance after alleged complaints:
ReplyDeletequaff mead in heaven Dec 24
"Scandinavians expected to quaff mead in heaven out of the skulls of
their enemies."
http://www.britishbee.org.uk/files/mead-making.pdf
Now if I were a Scandinavian I suppose I should be offended by that and complain. It's a good thing that Russel's contribution is "directly related to translation or the translation industry, or to ProZ.com and the ProZ.com community" and is therefore permissible, right Astrid?
Curiously enough, nobody spotted your mention of KL Sachsenhausen in the "75K words" thread... Cultural unawareness, I assume?
ReplyDeleteDear Kevin,
ReplyDeleteWhat's the fuss? Kevin, you have a very popular blog and you don't need to post your opinions at that site. As I said before, you are evidently targeted or they would never let the mods mob on you. If you fight against the mods further, there will be peers coming up mobbing you. You can then gather enough bleaches against the rules to get you banned from the site. Believe me, I know what I am talking about. You have casued them too much trouble through your postings.
The one who put a rude comment to Aniello's proposed translation for "intimate knowledge" is the one who won one translation contest "from Chinese to German" sometime ago. Would you believe that? He doesn't even understand a complete sentence in Chinese. You can imagine how much manipulation there is at the site.
You are admired by many and your blog contains a lot of good advices. Here at yours people recognize your contribution to the translator community. There at that site, you are wasting your time. Staying a member?
- Sylvia
Law school is a graduate degree here, that’s why it’s so long. After that, you have two more years for specialization (optional). I went to college back home in the States, but since they use the continental system here I still have to sit through all 45 courses to get my law degree! I know they have the same system in Spain and France, but I don’t know if it’s the same in Germany. What’s interesting though is that Argentina copied its civil law system from France (continental), criminal system from Germany (continental), and constitutional system from the US (common law), so to be a lawyer here we don’t just have to study the Codes like in the EU or the cases like in the states, we have to study both!!! Good thing I’m a book worm! ;)
ReplyDeleteBack to the thought police though, here’s what I don’t get: why have forums in the first place if you’re too afraid to let people speak their minds? I get that they want to foster an environment based on mutual respect and all that other nice stuff, and that’s fine. But we’re all grown-ups engaging in conversation, some people use irony and sarcasm, some people might say something other people don’t like, but we’re all adults and can handle not agreeing on things! I would understand moderating comments that create hostile or discriminatory environments based on age, gender, race, etc. I could also understand moderating comments that incite crime. But moderating on the count of people’s feelings getting hurt or Henry et al. deeming it inappropriate? That just seems unnecessarily protectionist. It kind of reminds me of the old Latin American military regimes, and look at how they ended up!
@Sylvia: Fuss? No fuss, really. Just shining a little light into a murky business. Thanks for sharing that bit about the Chinese translation; I was unaware of it. I have avoided discussions with that particular individual for a long time simply because I find his statements on translation philosophy deeply disturbing. Or expressed better: deeply disturbed. There was an old discussion (I'm too lazy to look for the link now, and I don't remember what language it was in) regarding the degrees of freedom to be afforded a translator in rendering a text. He had a very rigid position in favor of literal translation and, as I recall, was rather insulting to anyone who saw things differently. As Barney Frank would say, you're better off arguing with a dining room table.
ReplyDelete@Paula: So you've already got an undergraduate degree in the US? Then five years of law school + 2 years specialist training to come on top of that? Very nice. Sounds as hardcore as what US doctors go through in their education and more than is asked of lawyers there. Having to know both legal systems well also sounds like a wonderful challenge as well. I think boredom will never be a problem in your future career :-)
I don't think I'm capable of boredom! ;)
ReplyDeleteBTW, in my previous comment, I meant to say law school is an undergraduate degree in Argentina. Sorry, slip of the fingers! But yes, I did get my undergraduate degree in the States before moving here, and they're still torturing me with 45 law courses + specialist training in spite of that! But I made my bed... so I'm not complaining.
@Paula: Undergraduate? OK, then with the two years afterward the total time commitment is roughly the same as a student in the US would expect (from the start of college as an undergraduate to the completion of the degree). I'm not surprised that you weren't credited much from your US studies unless it was in something overlapping. What was your college/university and major(s)/minor(s) in the US? Following the path you have taken, you'll probably end up with more breadth in the end, and that is always a good thing. A few extra years of full-time study aren't such a bad thing if you can afford it.
ReplyDeleteLaw school itself is an undergraduate degree (4.5 years total), the two year specialist thing is a graduate degree. If you count the number of years, it's pretty much the same as in the States, the difference is that in Argentina we start studying law from day 1, so it's 4.5 years of legal studies only. As you know, in the US you don't even have to have been pre-law to get into law school so technically, lawyers only study "the law" for about 2-3 years in the US.
ReplyDeleteAs far as your question, I majored in education so there wasn't much overlap there!
To be honest, I really don't mind the extra years of study. I've wanted to be a lawyer ever since I was kid, but couldn't actually afford law school until now. I'm just happy and grateful I managed to make a good living as a translator and have the opportunity to pay for law school with the money I make doing something I love! Like I said earlier, I really can't complain! :)
It seems that the ProZ moderators are continuing their search for trivial transgressions. I just received another love letter regarding my comment in a thread discussing the craziness of taking on a project to translate 75,000 words in two weeks:
ReplyDeleteDear Kevin Lossner,
This message is to inform you that your post http://www.proz.com/post/1292837 has been removed from public view but made editable and visible to you because it was not in line with site rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/1#1
Please note that ProZ.com is a "translation workplace". Topics which are not directly related to translation or the translation industry, or to ProZ.com and the ProZ.com community, are not permitted.
As a moderator, I have pledged to enforce ProZ.com's limited scope by removing, or not vetting, postings that are not appropriate for the translation workplace, without regard to my personal opinion on views expressed.
For more info, see:
ProZ.com scope: http://www.proz.com/scope Forum rules: http://www.proz.com/forumrules FAQ's on no politics: http://www.proz.com/?sp=faq&#forum_no_politics
You are kindly requested to edit your post in line with this rule, so it can be made visible again.
Please edit your posting by removing "Sachsenhausen" - a Nazi concentration camp - from it. It is both offensive and inappropriate.
Thank you in advance for your understanding and future cooperation.
Regards,
Maya Gorgoshidze ProZ.com moderator.
http://www.proz.com/profile/60049
The "offensive message" was the following:
Raubbau am eigenen Körper Dec 27
Posting not yet approved
[quote]
Nicole Schnell wrote:
At times, my phone goes off every 30 minutes. It may be phone solicitors, co-workers or clients. YES, we DO have caller ID, in case you may ask. It is a disruption anyway. No, we do not have a secretary... Dedicating myself and my undivided energy, attention and focus on one single job during the course of two weeks (!!) is out of the question. I am not a factory worker, and I do not and never will intend to be one.[/quote]
Sounds familiar. When I lived in your part of the world (small farm outside of Scio, an hour south), I developed the habit of checking the answering machine once a week because I hated interruptions. Now my pet peeve is the doorbell when I work. Unanticipated deliveries and unannounced drop-ins. Had another one today just as I was wrapping up a special project on schedule. If anyone saw a mushroom cloud just north of Berlin, that was me.
I suppose that under the right alignment of the stars and isolation in solitary confinement this crazy project might be doable by one translator. But pardon me if I am skeptical of those who claim it will not affect them adversely in some way. Even if I don't think of the mental and physical effects of the pace required, I can consider the consequences of blowing off my entire clientele on short notice for several weeks. Fine, I probably won't lose anyone, but since I might be dead of boredom from doing the same thing all day for two weeks solid, I may not be around to serve them later too.
As for buying new cars from the proceeds (after taxes?), I'm satisfied with my rusting hulks that barely make it through the biannual inspections. They are my subtle way of telling a car-obsessed culture that I have other interests.
I think there is probably no point in telling some people that there should be some small difference between a freelance translator's working conditions and the conditions that prevailed formerly at nearby Sachsenhausen, but I think that's a lesson that each must learn by him-/herself. Those who cannot will eventually leave the field clear for others.
Sillier and sillier....
My further comment to Maya regarding this latest bit of censorship:
ReplyDeleteI disagree. The remark is not offensive nor is it inappropriate. If a translator acquaintance of mine can speak of Sachsenhausen after having spent his childhood in that hell hole, then I doubt anyone with a right to be offended would be. Many who have "enjoyed" the benefits of contact with totalitarian regimes (to whose number I belong in a small degree) find that the occasional reference to these serves as a useful reminder to a world which is too eager to forget. By silencing such statements, you serve the purposes of society's darkest elements.
*****
Sometimes I wonder if those who are so quick to object to any mention of the past have some dark family secret to keep hidden. Or perhaps sympathies better not revealed. Hide the past and you let its foul remnants fester to bring forth new diseases to afflict us.
My quote of your post was "hidden from public sight" too. This is really becoming... ahem - pick yours :)
ReplyDeleteHeh. That post had gone by unnoticed until Laurent mentioned it here.
ReplyDeleteCoincidence? Riiiiiight.
I just deserve a kick in the butt for this remark of mine, really (grrr at the censors anyway!)
ReplyDelete"Zu allem Überfluß" as the Germans would say... it seems that my comments on ProZ are now so dangerous that they require the work of two moderators to remove a single comment. Shortly after Maya's silly action, good ol' Jared sent the following mail for the same message:
ReplyDeleteDear Kevin Lossner,
This message is to inform you that your post "Raubbau am eigenen Körper" has been removed from public view because it was not in line with site rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/1#1
Please note that ProZ.com is a "translation workplace". Topics which are not directly related to translation or the translation industry, or to ProZ.com and the ProZ.com community, are not permitted.
As a moderator, I have pledged to enforce ProZ.com's limited scope by removing, or not vetting, postings that are not appropriate for the translation workplace, without regard to my personal opinion on views expressed.
For more info, see:
ProZ.com scope: http://www.proz.com/scope Forum rules: http://www.proz.com/forumrules FAQ's on no politics: http://www.proz.com/?sp=faq&#forum_no_politics
Thank you in advance for your understanding and future cooperation.
Regards,
Jared ProZ.com moderator.
http://www.proz.com/profile/663952
***************
The ProZ forums really can no longer be taken seriously for professional purposes. Others have said so for years, but after the purging of the original crew of competent moderators who dared to have opinions, things have only gotten worse. A few minutes ago I received an interesting comment regarding the state of things in the German/Italian forum:
Die Moderation ist höchste Schei** und nicht nur dort: Das italienische Forum ist ein Zombi, praktisch tote Hose, wo nur unerfahrene Besserwisser 'was zu erzählen haben. KudoZ DE/IT der Gipfel der höchsten Schei**.
The main point of the comment is that censorship has effectively killed real discussion. That can be observed in many of the forums there, and it is directly attributable to the incompetent, heavy-handed wy in which moderation is carried out.
The theory has been advanced that the management of ProZ is not bothered by the damage to the company's image as long as the revenues from Google AdSense and other sources keep coming in. I don't know the figures or the business plan and refuse to comment on such speculation. However, these ads - which many ProZ users do not see because they are logged in - are a serious issue, which many rightly feel degrades the quality of the environment and creates an atmosphere in which the services of a translator can barely be distinguished from those of young ladies offering their services as "escorts". A few examples of these ads have been shown in past posts, but given the moderators' "concerns" about good appearances on ProZ, I think it's time for us to do a full review in 24-bit color of just what those appearances are. Many translators work hard on a professional presentation of their services, and it is really a shame to see them undermined by ads for prostitution and crash diets.
[quote]The main point of the comment is that censorship has effectively killed real discussion. That can be observed in many of the forums there, and it is directly attributable to the incompetent, heavy-handed wy in which moderation is carried out.[/quote]
ReplyDeleteBasically, the problem comes from the fact that moderators are unpaid people. They are actually any members, except they don't pay membership for a period of time and some possible benefits. But they are no employees, not in the payroll. For this reason, the less work, the better. Critical people are easily targeted because they can cause trouble for the business. It is obvious that the management suppresses questioning into their business practices. So, the moderators are possibly instructed and empowered to "take care" of critical members. Through years of observation, I've found out many critical ones "quietly removed," even critical moderators. The list of the disappeared ones is quite long, not only those 30 some moderators who had to step out in March and April, 2009. There were many members and moderators suppressed before that incident.
For the business of that website, it is better to have an increasing herd of lambs, mediocre translators, who believe in the illusion of finding jobs through such a portal than some brilliant minds who shed some light into our industry and thus help colleagues facing the reality. The censorship there is to create and to maintain some illusions, purposefully misguided public perceptions.
However, for those enlightened ones, who understand well that the site is a business entity with the business purpose of making money out of translators by whatever means, it doesn't matter how they run their business. It is their darn right to do whatever they want. It depends only on one's own decision to be there as one of the herd of lambs or step aside observing with a clear mind what games they are playing. If one still finds some use of the site, one stays and shuts up. Becoming one of those unpaid moderators? Well, I guess good translators wouldn't have the time and energy for the feel of power exercise. There are enough to do to stay a competent translator as to be an unpaid watchdog for some business entity.
Happy New Year, Kevin!
- Sylvia
> Basically, the problem comes from the fact
ReplyDelete> that moderators are unpaid people.
> They are actually any members, except they
> don't pay membership for a period of time
> and some possible benefits.
I think you're mistaken here on a few counts, Sylvia. Jared (who functions as a moderator) is on staff, and his actions are just as unfortunate with regard to the RuleZ bullshit as any other. He's actually been a great help sorting out other issues over the years, but my opinion of his arbitrary application of RuleZ isn't any higher than the one I hold of certain other mods. I've also seen some incredible bullshit from other staff in mail received privately from frustrated ProZ members. So I definitely don't think the issue here is paid versus unpaid efforts. It's more a personality issue, and the sort of Mitläufer that seems to be desired for this function these days. Too bad, really. In the old days if someone like RL or SW slapped my wrist, I knew I'd probably overstepped a real line and should take what they have to say seriously. There are a few of the current crew whom I generally respect (including the Turkish mod who censored me), but I find their compliance with the regime's silliness unfortunate. It's obvious that they aren't entirely comfortable with that role, and I suppose they are probably a bit like Colin Powell figuring to soften the worst of the Bush craziness, but I fear the the end result won't be much better (except perhaps for about a million fewer dead bodies).
I also think you're mistaken about moderators not having to pay membership fees. My understanding is that they do so like everyone else, and that this is indeed a volunteer effort. Maybe things have changed, but I seem to remember a moderator I know and trust completely making this point about a year ago. For the work some of them put in I would not object to a fee waiver, but I don't believe there is one.
With the exception of some mods who probably need to get laid and get a life, I think that a good number - the majority - are reasonable people in general and are honestly interested in giving something back to a platform from which they have derived benefit in the past. Unfortunately the guidelines which they are given for their unpaid work shift their actions in a direction which damages the quality of the site and their reputations. I do have the impression that the current crew act like a bunch of mice scurrying for cover every time someone in Saudi Arabia or Somalia or some place where persons of other faiths are burned alive by the trainload has an issue with a comment made by someone in a country where the secret police do not monitor and punish words spoken in private or public. To pander to such people is really crass. Maybe Henry is afraid of having Chinese censors block the site or some such thing. Who knows? I don't need anyone's dollar enough that I'll sell my soul to Google, China or any other entity or polity.
> Happy New Year, Kevin!
To you as well and to all others who stumble across this thread. I'm sure in many senses most of us have see better years than 2009. Let's hope 2010 will be one of them and share ideas to raise the odds that it will be.
> I think you're mistaken here on a few counts, Sylvia. Jared (who functions as a moderator) is on staff, ...
ReplyDeleteWell, Jared funtions as moderator is something quite new. He has been long since a staff member.
> I also think you're mistaken about moderators not having to pay membership fees. My understanding is that they do so like everyone else, and that this is indeed a volunteer effort. Maybe things have changed, but I seem to remember a moderator I know and trust completely making this point about a year ago. For the work some of them put in I would not object to a fee waiver, but I don't believe there is one.
There was an ex moderator, Jianjun Zhang, who vented openly that he didn't need to pay the member fee. Either he lied or...
> With the exception of some mods who probably need to get laid and get a life, I think that a good number - the majority - are reasonable people in general and are honestly interested in giving something back to a platform from which they have derived benefit in the past.
Right, I have learned a lot of them and most of them are gone. That's the point we are making.
> Maybe Henry is afraid of having Chinese censors block the site or some such thing. Who knows? I don't need anyone's dollar enough that I'll sell my soul to Google, China or any other entity or polity.
Oh yeah? KudoZ is already blocked by Chinese censors, but they can do nothing about it. Chinese members who live in China find their ways to get acrosss the Great Firewall somehow.
Even if you don't need anyone's dollar, you might be working the way they want you do without your knowing.
By the way, I was to remind you that some critical minds in the past got fed up with the tricks with which their opinions were suppressed and fought openly back. These people disappear there, not without an open discrediting and a quiet removal. Human beings are forgetful and "out of sight, out of mind." Not many people remember those who got quietly removed. Laurant might remember a certain Oliver XXXbaum who got removed in the past 6 months.
I do not mind that people find use of the site and stay or promote their business, say, providing free works as mods or something else. Why not sell their souls to the devil, if they enjoy something we don't exactly know?
No problem with me. I am just watching what would happen next there.
- Sylvia
Your favorite moderator is mine too! In fact, she's the only moderator who has banned a post of mine. And it was a two-paragraph post in German, which took me half an hour to write.
ReplyDelete@Alejandro; What do you expect? You're a subversive cartoonist, just like that guy in Denmark. Doesn't go over well with fanatics....
ReplyDeleteI remember that one of my comments was banned by the same moderator jsut because of using "Herrgottsakra!" (or maybe "Herrgottsakrament!", I do not remember exactly). She wrote "
ReplyDeleteGotteslästerung ist nicht im Forum gestattet." (not very convincing syntax, by the way, even worse than my English).
Come on, I am living in Bavaria. We are surely much more catholic than this moderator will ever be.
> We are surely much more catholic
ReplyDelete> than this moderator will ever be.
Hey Torsten, Catholic might be part of the problem. I remember my days in strict Protestant churches hearing about how all of you were headed for The Eternal Weenie Roast. No sense of humor, no understanding of satire and overall a rather cheerless and narrow world view. I doubt any of the Franciscan brothers I used to teach with would have had major issues with my posts that get banned. The more I see of the Moderator Game these days at ProZ, the more I am reminded of Otero's Color Game at Occidental College decades ago. The G4 enforcers (game moderators) often showed very sadistic, petty sides that one would never have suspected otherwise. The ability to handle authority or the appearance of authority well is not a common trait.
Kevin, have you seen Astrid's recent comment on ProZ? The one about "Ich moderiere doch so locker"...
ReplyDelete